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Bootstrap Features
Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Bootstrap Features
  Harvey Mushman
  All
  Apr 14, 2014 @ 07:09am
Rick - just wondering if it would make any sense at this late date in WC development to add a group of form controls that were more tailored to Bootstrap?

What I was thinking was stuff like setting the CSS properties for the controls out of the box. Or when adding a control having the place-holder property set and right away drop a corresponding label onto the form.

This is the sort of stuff I'm finding myself doing a lot these days and because this is such a popular library... w(h)ell, I know how you always like to get my feedback...!<s>

--hm

--hm--

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Rick Strahl
  Harvey Mushman
  Apr 14, 2014 @ 10:59pm
You can manually add bootstrap classes easily enough in your code - after all it's just HTML markup.

If there's interest I would maybe build out a new version (6.0) that includes default bootstrap support and default mobile interfaces plus a better more AJAX centric experience (perhaps with Angular). But at this stage in FoxPro's life cycle - and Web Connection's decline due to that - it's hard for me to justify major improvements to the product.

I've considered doing another Web Connection upgrade (version 6.0) and adding bootstrap support out of the box, which would mean updating all the samples and most likely also breaking existing 5.x application styling. Also along the same lines - adding a more AJAX based framework and much better mobile support.

However, I honestly don't see this as being supported by a) interest in the community b) paying for an upgrade to make the effort worthwhile :-)

But I'd be interested to hear from others what thoughts are on this... I'm expecting crickets...

Discuss...

+++ Rick ---


Rick - just wondering if it would make any sense at this late date in WC development to add a group of form controls that were more tailored to Bootstrap?

What I was thinking was stuff like setting the CSS properties for the controls out of the box. Or when adding a control having the place-holder property set and right away drop a corresponding label onto the form.

This is the sort of stuff I'm finding myself doing a lot these days and because this is such a popular library... w(h)ell, I know how you always like to get my feedback...!<s>

--hm



Rick Strahl
West Wind Technologies

Making waves on the Web
from Maui

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  n/a
  Rick Strahl
  Apr 15, 2014 @ 02:06pm
Hello Rick.. I've used your products for a long time.. Love web connect... However.. most of my programming lately has been Javascript/Jquery/AJAX.. with web connect as a backend.... Server side "for me at least" has been for sending data back to client... JSON mainly.... REST/CRUD/ODATA is all I need lately on the server side... I still send back HTML to the client now and then.. but getting less and less.. All the utilities in wconnect are the best.. I'd be more interested in features that deal with data.. and methods of getting the data easy.. wconnect can also provide wconnect.js file with built-in .. direct connectors to the data...

I've been using bootstrap a lot lately.. many times do stuff like $("#element").load("/wconnect/wc.dll?something...); in wconnect I create all the bootstrap stuff tagged with the bootstrap classes and send it back to the browser... a wconnect.js wrapper could have something like $wc("fillwithcustomers eq ABC") kinda like ODATA stuff....

Anyway.. if there was a wconnect version 6... I'd pay for the upgrade....

Thanks
Jim



You can manually add bootstrap classes easily enough in your code - after all it's just HTML markup.

If there's interest I would maybe build out a new version (6.0) that includes default bootstrap support and default mobile interfaces plus a better more AJAX centric experience (perhaps with Angular). But at this stage in FoxPro's life cycle - and Web Connection's decline due to that - it's hard for me to justify major improvements to the product.

I've considered doing another Web Connection upgrade (version 6.0) and adding bootstrap support out of the box, which would mean updating all the samples and most likely also breaking existing 5.x application styling. Also along the same lines - adding a more AJAX based framework and much better mobile support.

However, I honestly don't see this as being supported by a) interest in the community b) paying for an upgrade to make the effort worthwhile :-)

But I'd be interested to hear from others what thoughts are on this... I'm expecting crickets...

Discuss...

+++ Rick ---


Rick - just wondering if it would make any sense at this late date in WC development to add a group of form controls that were more tailored to Bootstrap?

What I was thinking was stuff like setting the CSS properties for the controls out of the box. Or when adding a control having the place-holder property set and right away drop a corresponding label onto the form.

This is the sort of stuff I'm finding myself doing a lot these days and because this is such a popular library... w(h)ell, I know how you always like to get my feedback...!<s>

--hm



Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  n/a
  Rick Strahl
  Apr 16, 2014 @ 09:59am
Rick I would gladly pay for the upgrade and others. The WWWC platform is stable and has run our business for 14 years. Microsoft can discontinue support all they way, but the OS will keep going for years to come... Using what works and has worked is a simple key to success.


You can manually add bootstrap classes easily enough in your code - after all it's just HTML markup.

If there's interest I would maybe build out a new version (6.0) that includes default bootstrap support and default mobile interfaces plus a better more AJAX centric experience (perhaps with Angular). But at this stage in FoxPro's life cycle - and Web Connection's decline due to that - it's hard for me to justify major improvements to the product.

I've considered doing another Web Connection upgrade (version 6.0) and adding bootstrap support out of the box, which would mean updating all the samples and most likely also breaking existing 5.x application styling. Also along the same lines - adding a more AJAX based framework and much better mobile support.

However, I honestly don't see this as being supported by a) interest in the community b) paying for an upgrade to make the effort worthwhile :-)

But I'd be interested to hear from others what thoughts are on this... I'm expecting crickets...

Discuss...

+++ Rick ---


Rick - just wondering if it would make any sense at this late date in WC development to add a group of form controls that were more tailored to Bootstrap?

What I was thinking was stuff like setting the CSS properties for the controls out of the box. Or when adding a control having the place-holder property set and right away drop a corresponding label onto the form.

This is the sort of stuff I'm finding myself doing a lot these days and because this is such a popular library... w(h)ell, I know how you always like to get my feedback...!<s>

--hm



Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Harvey Mushman
  Rick Strahl
  Apr 16, 2014 @ 11:48am
Not exactly a landslide response to the level of interest... <g> But perhaps this is a good thing, after all you posted the question on your support forum. I read this as your product does not require a lot of support not because its unused but because it is bug free and provides a great service out of the box.

I will be the last one to ask you to invest a lot of time in something you will not recover your investment in, and I know the SW Fox interest level has fallen way off the past few years. But my feeling is you need to reach out to your entire existing customer base with a new letter and see what the level of interest in a version 6 product is before going forward or giving up.

You could build an email list from day one of WC and spam everyone. The down side would be a reinforcement that most of your old customers have moved on. But I suspect your ego can take it... <s>

Just my two cents...!


You can manually add bootstrap classes easily enough in your code - after all it's just HTML markup.

If there's interest I would maybe build out a new version (6.0) that includes default bootstrap support and default mobile interfaces plus a better more AJAX centric experience (perhaps with Angular). But at this stage in FoxPro's life cycle - and Web Connection's decline due to that - it's hard for me to justify major improvements to the product.

I've considered doing another Web Connection upgrade (version 6.0) and adding bootstrap support out of the box, which would mean updating all the samples and most likely also breaking existing 5.x application styling. Also along the same lines - adding a more AJAX based framework and much better mobile support.

However, I honestly don't see this as being supported by a) interest in the community b) paying for an upgrade to make the effort worthwhile :-)

But I'd be interested to hear from others what thoughts are on this... I'm expecting crickets...

Discuss...

+++ Rick ---


Rick - just wondering if it would make any sense at this late date in WC development to add a group of form controls that were more tailored to Bootstrap?

What I was thinking was stuff like setting the CSS properties for the controls out of the box. Or when adding a control having the place-holder property set and right away drop a corresponding label onto the form.

This is the sort of stuff I'm finding myself doing a lot these days and because this is such a popular library... w(h)ell, I know how you always like to get my feedback...!<s>

--hm




--hm--

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Stein Goering
  Rick Strahl
  Apr 17, 2014 @ 02:51pm
My employer owns 2 WC licenses and I'm sure they would happily upgrade both if a new version came available. Our investment in WC has repaid us many times over.

Increased support for mobile interfaces would be a plus, and integration with Angular is something I've been looking into.

--stein


You can manually add bootstrap classes easily enough in your code - after all it's just HTML markup.

If there's interest I would maybe build out a new version (6.0) that includes default bootstrap support and default mobile interfaces plus a better more AJAX centric experience (perhaps with Angular). But at this stage in FoxPro's life cycle - and Web Connection's decline due to that - it's hard for me to justify major improvements to the product.

I've considered doing another Web Connection upgrade (version 6.0) and adding bootstrap support out of the box, which would mean updating all the samples and most likely also breaking existing 5.x application styling. Also along the same lines - adding a more AJAX based framework and much better mobile support.

However, I honestly don't see this as being supported by a) interest in the community b) paying for an upgrade to make the effort worthwhile :-)

But I'd be interested to hear from others what thoughts are on this... I'm expecting crickets...

Discuss...

+++ Rick ---


Rick - just wondering if it would make any sense at this late date in WC development to add a group of form controls that were more tailored to Bootstrap?

What I was thinking was stuff like setting the CSS properties for the controls out of the box. Or when adding a control having the place-holder property set and right away drop a corresponding label onto the form.

This is the sort of stuff I'm finding myself doing a lot these days and because this is such a popular library... w(h)ell, I know how you always like to get my feedback...!<s>

--hm



Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Rick Strahl
  Jim M
  Apr 17, 2014 @ 04:18pm
Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.

+++ Rick ---



Hello Rick.. I've used your products for a long time.. Love web connect... However.. most of my programming lately has been Javascript/Jquery/AJAX.. with web connect as a backend.... Server side "for me at least" has been for sending data back to client... JSON mainly.... REST/CRUD/ODATA is all I need lately on the server side... I still send back HTML to the client now and then.. but getting less and less.. All the utilities in wconnect are the best.. I'd be more interested in features that deal with data.. and methods of getting the data easy.. wconnect can also provide wconnect.js file with built-in .. direct connectors to the data...

I've been using bootstrap a lot lately.. many times do stuff like $("#element").load("/wconnect/wc.dll?something...); in wconnect I create all the bootstrap stuff tagged with the bootstrap classes and send it back to the browser... a wconnect.js wrapper could have something like $wc("fillwithcustomers eq ABC") kinda like ODATA stuff....

Anyway.. if there was a wconnect version 6... I'd pay for the upgrade....

Thanks
Jim



You can manually add bootstrap classes easily enough in your code - after all it's just HTML markup.

If there's interest I would maybe build out a new version (6.0) that includes default bootstrap support and default mobile interfaces plus a better more AJAX centric experience (perhaps with Angular). But at this stage in FoxPro's life cycle - and Web Connection's decline due to that - it's hard for me to justify major improvements to the product.

I've considered doing another Web Connection upgrade (version 6.0) and adding bootstrap support out of the box, which would mean updating all the samples and most likely also breaking existing 5.x application styling. Also along the same lines - adding a more AJAX based framework and much better mobile support.

However, I honestly don't see this as being supported by a) interest in the community b) paying for an upgrade to make the effort worthwhile :-)

But I'd be interested to hear from others what thoughts are on this... I'm expecting crickets...

Discuss...

+++ Rick ---


Rick - just wondering if it would make any sense at this late date in WC development to add a group of form controls that were more tailored to Bootstrap?

What I was thinking was stuff like setting the CSS properties for the controls out of the box. Or when adding a control having the place-holder property set and right away drop a corresponding label onto the form.

This is the sort of stuff I'm finding myself doing a lot these days and because this is such a popular library... w(h)ell, I know how you always like to get my feedback...!<s>

--hm






Rick Strahl
West Wind Technologies

Making waves on the Web
from Maui

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  n/a
  Rick Strahl
  Apr 17, 2014 @ 05:31pm
Well... I think people still like your products.. You've always been the "guy that knows everything" and people use your products because they are top notch.. It's not just wconnect seeing times change... I'm sure asp.net feels it too... However, with your skills .. it's just a matter of putting your efforts into building some other flagship product... We still have many apps using many of your product.. and they work fine... I don't see changing
them any time soon... Client side I've been using ExtJs4 for heavy grid stuff.... but for simple good looking stuff I use plain jquery and bootstrap... Angularjs seems to be taking off a little... Ember has a smaller market share... I've done some stuff with angularjs... ng-repeat.. just doesn't cut it with building robust grids.. I've yet to see a grid in angularjs than can hang with extjs4 or jquery plugins.. but you can put a jquery grid in an angular app.... angular has a trimmed down version of jquery built in .. think its called jqlite...

I think if you sent out an email to all your customers.. like a survey or barometer on what people think on the direction of your future products... You'd still have tons of followers/customers.... You see with your products you also get knowledge from your white papers "Which I think I've read every one of them" tons of articles... excellent help .. the whole works...

Anyway... I'd still be in on future products.. You're still everyones guru!!

Thanks
Jim


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.

+++ Rick ---



Hello Rick.. I've used your products for a long time.. Love web connect... However.. most of my programming lately has been Javascript/Jquery/AJAX.. with web connect as a backend.... Server side "for me at least" has been for sending data back to client... JSON mainly.... REST/CRUD/ODATA is all I need lately on the server side... I still send back HTML to the client now and then.. but getting less and less.. All the utilities in wconnect are the best.. I'd be more interested in features that deal with data.. and methods of getting the data easy.. wconnect can also provide wconnect.js file with built-in .. direct connectors to the data...

I've been using bootstrap a lot lately.. many times do stuff like $("#element").load("/wconnect/wc.dll?something...); in wconnect I create all the bootstrap stuff tagged with the bootstrap classes and send it back to the browser... a wconnect.js wrapper could have something like $wc("fillwithcustomers eq ABC") kinda like ODATA stuff....

Anyway.. if there was a wconnect version 6... I'd pay for the upgrade....

Thanks
Jim



You can manually add bootstrap classes easily enough in your code - after all it's just HTML markup.

If there's interest I would maybe build out a new version (6.0) that includes default bootstrap support and default mobile interfaces plus a better more AJAX centric experience (perhaps with Angular). But at this stage in FoxPro's life cycle - and Web Connection's decline due to that - it's hard for me to justify major improvements to the product.

I've considered doing another Web Connection upgrade (version 6.0) and adding bootstrap support out of the box, which would mean updating all the samples and most likely also breaking existing 5.x application styling. Also along the same lines - adding a more AJAX based framework and much better mobile support.

However, I honestly don't see this as being supported by a) interest in the community b) paying for an upgrade to make the effort worthwhile :-)

But I'd be interested to hear from others what thoughts are on this... I'm expecting crickets...

Discuss...

+++ Rick ---


Rick - just wondering if it would make any sense at this late date in WC development to add a group of form controls that were more tailored to Bootstrap?

What I was thinking was stuff like setting the CSS properties for the controls out of the box. Or when adding a control having the place-holder property set and right away drop a corresponding label onto the form.

This is the sort of stuff I'm finding myself doing a lot these days and because this is such a popular library... w(h)ell, I know how you always like to get my feedback...!<s>

--hm






Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Marty
  Rick Strahl
  Apr 17, 2014 @ 08:13pm
I'm up for Bootstrap. - Any chance of using templating a la BackBone?

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Marty
  Rick Strahl
  Apr 18, 2014 @ 06:48am
The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  n/a
  Marty
  Aug 16, 2014 @ 01:14pm
Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---


Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Rick Strahl
  MB
  Aug 16, 2014 @ 04:25pm

ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---





Rick Strahl
West Wind Technologies

Making waves on the Web
from Maui

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  n/a
  Rick Strahl
  Aug 17, 2014 @ 09:56am
Will do.

ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---





Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Marty
  Rick Strahl
  Aug 18, 2014 @ 12:18pm

ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---





Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Rick Strahl
  Marty
  Aug 18, 2014 @ 12:47pm

If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---








Rick Strahl
West Wind Technologies

Making waves on the Web
from Maui

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Bob Roenigk
  Rick Strahl
  Aug 18, 2014 @ 03:13pm
I will be happy to make an advance purchase now of your next major release if that will help you move in that direction.

~bob


If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---








Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Marty
  Rick Strahl
  Aug 18, 2014 @ 03:15pm
I'm actually playing with moving to Node, Mongo, Express,Bootstrap, EJS/Jade - Not sure about Angular.

I'm exporting VFP tables into Mongo - Very interesting.

What the MEAN stack really needs is well documented, back to front demo like wcdemo!

Who knows? Maybe you'll wind a Google MVP one day!

If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---








Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Rick Strahl
  Marty
  Aug 18, 2014 @ 04:16pm

Yes last couple of projects I've worked on in .NET I've used MongoDb and I love it for a number of things. Also been working with NodeJs a little although I'm not so impressed by that - there's too much fragmentation for my taste there.

The real beauty though is that I'm mostly building client side apps that are mostly using the server as a data service - in this respect even VFP works. In fact, I've been updating and greatly improving the wwRestProcess class that provides most of this functionality out of the box in WWWC now as well - easy to set up a service.

This is kind of where this stuff comes together with what Michael has been talking about - the bootstrap integration, some client side examples using Angular or something similar to drive a server side service.

+++ Rick ---


I'm actually playing with moving to Node, Mongo, Express,Bootstrap, EJS/Jade - Not sure about Angular.

I'm exporting VFP tables into Mongo - Very interesting.

What the MEAN stack really needs is well documented, back to front demo like wcdemo!

Who knows? Maybe you'll wind a Google MVP one day!

If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---











Rick Strahl
West Wind Technologies

Making waves on the Web
from Maui

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Rick Strahl
  Bob Roenigk
  Aug 18, 2014 @ 04:16pm
That's Ok, Bob, but I appreciate the sentiment.

It's good enough to hear people perk up and say that they're interested. Unfortunately the reach of this forum is pretty short, so that doesn't really give a good picture.

+++ Rick ---



I will be happy to make an advance purchase now of your next major release if that will help you move in that direction.

~bob


If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---











Rick Strahl
West Wind Technologies

Making waves on the Web
from Maui

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Harvey Mushman
  Marty
  Aug 20, 2014 @ 07:46am
My two cents worth...

Rick directed me to Bootstrap and then AngularJS. I see this as the future for the next round of development. It is awesome! The two-way data binding in Angular is so familiar to someone like myself that has been with dBase II and FoxBASE... from the start.

I'm finding WebConnect to still be a great server side framework. Although almost all of my work in the browser is makes callbacks to wwProcess for data and very little in the WC Page class, I also still find working with WC framework very easy and quick to build utility pages. I suspect this too will go away as I become more and more accustom to Angular.

Oh, all of my current work is building a cross platform web based application for the general public in a vertical market. This means I need to support smartphones, tablets and desktop machines. I know I still have some large hurdles to jump over (integrating the QR Code scanning, the camera and GPS) but I think as I get to these issues the path will be more clearly defined. <g> (hoping!)

--hm



I'm actually playing with moving to Node, Mongo, Express,Bootstrap, EJS/Jade - Not sure about Angular.

I'm exporting VFP tables into Mongo - Very interesting.

What the MEAN stack really needs is well documented, back to front demo like wcdemo!

Who knows? Maybe you'll wind a Google MVP one day!

If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---










--hm--

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Michael Hogan (Ideate Hosting)
  Harvey Mushman
  Aug 22, 2014 @ 08:48am
Me too - that make 4 cents.


My two cents worth...

Rick directed me to Bootstrap and then AngularJS. I see this as the future for the next round of development. It is awesome! The two-way data binding in Angular is so familiar to someone like myself that has been with dBase II and FoxBASE... from the start.

I'm finding WebConnect to still be a great server side framework. Although almost all of my work in the browser is makes callbacks to wwProcess for data and very little in the WC Page class, I also still find working with WC framework very easy and quick to build utility pages. I suspect this too will go away as I become more and more accustom to Angular.

Oh, all of my current work is building a cross platform web based application for the general public in a vertical market. This means I need to support smartphones, tablets and desktop machines. I know I still have some large hurdles to jump over (integrating the QR Code scanning, the camera and GPS) but I think as I get to these issues the path will be more clearly defined. <g> (hoping!)

--hm



I'm actually playing with moving to Node, Mongo, Express,Bootstrap, EJS/Jade - Not sure about Angular.

I'm exporting VFP tables into Mongo - Very interesting.

What the MEAN stack really needs is well documented, back to front demo like wcdemo!

Who knows? Maybe you'll wind a Google MVP one day!

If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---











Michael
www.WebConnectionHosting.com

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Stein Goering
  Rick Strahl
  Aug 24, 2014 @ 09:38pm
For better or worse, my company still relies on our VFP/Web Connect app for the bulk of its revenue. We also have customers expressing interest in mobile support and integrating our app with other services (for which something like a restful service might be useful). So any movement along the lines being discussed would be welcome here - and supported at least to the point of upgrading both our developer licenses for WC.

--stein
Stein Goering
ACEware Systems, Inc


PS FWIW, the app still contains dozens of calls to SHOWCURSOR so we're hoping you maintain backwards compatibility.


Yes last couple of projects I've worked on in .NET I've used MongoDb and I love it for a number of things. Also been working with NodeJs a little although I'm not so impressed by that - there's too much fragmentation for my taste there.

The real beauty though is that I'm mostly building client side apps that are mostly using the server as a data service - in this respect even VFP works. In fact, I've been updating and greatly improving the wwRestProcess class that provides most of this functionality out of the box in WWWC now as well - easy to set up a service.

This is kind of where this stuff comes together with what Michael has been talking about - the bootstrap integration, some client side examples using Angular or something similar to drive a server side service.

+++ Rick ---


I'm actually playing with moving to Node, Mongo, Express,Bootstrap, EJS/Jade - Not sure about Angular.

I'm exporting VFP tables into Mongo - Very interesting.

What the MEAN stack really needs is well documented, back to front demo like wcdemo!

Who knows? Maybe you'll wind a Google MVP one day!

If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---











Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Rick Strahl
  Michael Hogan (Ideate Hosting)
  Sep 2, 2014 @ 03:34pm
I just want to re-iterate here that the biggest potential reason NOT to do this is that changing everything over to Bootstrap is likely to break existing styling in existing applications.

To make BootStrap usable say inthe Web Control Framework or with things like default Response styles, ShowCursor, errors etc, I have to change the base styles that exist in Web Connection today to move to Bootstrap's styles. That's not a big deal from my end (although it's easy to miss stuff there). This means default styling will change to Bootstraps styling which is probably Ok. What's not though is that if you customized and overrode styling with Web Connection specific styles or custom styles those styles will not work or likely look very funky.

There are some ways around this - you can include both bootstrap and custom styling, but that on the other hand probably ends up looking a little odd, or will require a bit of tweaking.

Curious - how many of you are using completely custom CSS, and how many of you rely mainly on westwind.css?

The other alternative is to leave the default styling like it is, provide bootstrap and then explicitly provide overrides for bootstrap, but I think that would pretty much defeat the purpose as this will be a pain.

Thoughts?

+++ Rick ---


Me too - that make 4 cents.


My two cents worth...

Rick directed me to Bootstrap and then AngularJS. I see this as the future for the next round of development. It is awesome! The two-way data binding in Angular is so familiar to someone like myself that has been with dBase II and FoxBASE... from the start.

I'm finding WebConnect to still be a great server side framework. Although almost all of my work in the browser is makes callbacks to wwProcess for data and very little in the WC Page class, I also still find working with WC framework very easy and quick to build utility pages. I suspect this too will go away as I become more and more accustom to Angular.

Oh, all of my current work is building a cross platform web based application for the general public in a vertical market. This means I need to support smartphones, tablets and desktop machines. I know I still have some large hurdles to jump over (integrating the QR Code scanning, the camera and GPS) but I think as I get to these issues the path will be more clearly defined. <g> (hoping!)

--hm



I'm actually playing with moving to Node, Mongo, Express,Bootstrap, EJS/Jade - Not sure about Angular.

I'm exporting VFP tables into Mongo - Very interesting.

What the MEAN stack really needs is well documented, back to front demo like wcdemo!

Who knows? Maybe you'll wind a Google MVP one day!

If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---













Rick Strahl
West Wind Technologies

Making waves on the Web
from Maui

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  n/a
  Rick Strahl
  Sep 4, 2014 @ 05:36am
I am very new to wwc, but so far I am using bootstrap as the main css. I have seen no problems (yet) in using the bootstrap css with wwwebdatagrids etc. I just change the ccs-class accordingly.
But, as I said, I am new to all this, so who knows where I will fail....

Stan


I just want to re-iterate here that the biggest potential reason NOT to do this is that changing everything over to Bootstrap is likely to break existing styling in existing applications.

To make BootStrap usable say inthe Web Control Framework or with things like default Response styles, ShowCursor, errors etc, I have to change the base styles that exist in Web Connection today to move to Bootstrap's styles. That's not a big deal from my end (although it's easy to miss stuff there). This means default styling will change to Bootstraps styling which is probably Ok. What's not though is that if you customized and overrode styling with Web Connection specific styles or custom styles those styles will not work or likely look very funky.

There are some ways around this - you can include both bootstrap and custom styling, but that on the other hand probably ends up looking a little odd, or will require a bit of tweaking.

Curious - how many of you are using completely custom CSS, and how many of you rely mainly on westwind.css?

The other alternative is to leave the default styling like it is, provide bootstrap and then explicitly provide overrides for bootstrap, but I think that would pretty much defeat the purpose as this will be a pain.

Thoughts?

+++ Rick ---


Me too - that make 4 cents.


My two cents worth...

Rick directed me to Bootstrap and then AngularJS. I see this as the future for the next round of development. It is awesome! The two-way data binding in Angular is so familiar to someone like myself that has been with dBase II and FoxBASE... from the start.

I'm finding WebConnect to still be a great server side framework. Although almost all of my work in the browser is makes callbacks to wwProcess for data and very little in the WC Page class, I also still find working with WC framework very easy and quick to build utility pages. I suspect this too will go away as I become more and more accustom to Angular.

Oh, all of my current work is building a cross platform web based application for the general public in a vertical market. This means I need to support smartphones, tablets and desktop machines. I know I still have some large hurdles to jump over (integrating the QR Code scanning, the camera and GPS) but I think as I get to these issues the path will be more clearly defined. <g> (hoping!)

--hm



I'm actually playing with moving to Node, Mongo, Express,Bootstrap, EJS/Jade - Not sure about Angular.

I'm exporting VFP tables into Mongo - Very interesting.

What the MEAN stack really needs is well documented, back to front demo like wcdemo!

Who knows? Maybe you'll wind a Google MVP one day!

If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---













Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Rick Strahl
  Stan
  Sep 4, 2014 @ 01:18pm
Hi Stan,

Yes, *using* Bootstrap isn't really an issue - as you point out it's easy enough to just specify the proper styles.

The issue is that if we bake this into the framework, the default styles will change from their original values, so defaults for old applications will now point to different styles which may cause problems for existing applications. Not an issue with newer development. It's a just a backwards compatibility issue, but I have a few ideas on how to work around that.

+++ Rick ---



I am very new to wwc, but so far I am using bootstrap as the main css. I have seen no problems (yet) in using the bootstrap css with wwwebdatagrids etc. I just change the ccs-class accordingly.
But, as I said, I am new to all this, so who knows where I will fail....

Stan


I just want to re-iterate here that the biggest potential reason NOT to do this is that changing everything over to Bootstrap is likely to break existing styling in existing applications.

To make BootStrap usable say inthe Web Control Framework or with things like default Response styles, ShowCursor, errors etc, I have to change the base styles that exist in Web Connection today to move to Bootstrap's styles. That's not a big deal from my end (although it's easy to miss stuff there). This means default styling will change to Bootstraps styling which is probably Ok. What's not though is that if you customized and overrode styling with Web Connection specific styles or custom styles those styles will not work or likely look very funky.

There are some ways around this - you can include both bootstrap and custom styling, but that on the other hand probably ends up looking a little odd, or will require a bit of tweaking.

Curious - how many of you are using completely custom CSS, and how many of you rely mainly on westwind.css?

The other alternative is to leave the default styling like it is, provide bootstrap and then explicitly provide overrides for bootstrap, but I think that would pretty much defeat the purpose as this will be a pain.

Thoughts?

+++ Rick ---


Me too - that make 4 cents.


My two cents worth...

Rick directed me to Bootstrap and then AngularJS. I see this as the future for the next round of development. It is awesome! The two-way data binding in Angular is so familiar to someone like myself that has been with dBase II and FoxBASE... from the start.

I'm finding WebConnect to still be a great server side framework. Although almost all of my work in the browser is makes callbacks to wwProcess for data and very little in the WC Page class, I also still find working with WC framework very easy and quick to build utility pages. I suspect this too will go away as I become more and more accustom to Angular.

Oh, all of my current work is building a cross platform web based application for the general public in a vertical market. This means I need to support smartphones, tablets and desktop machines. I know I still have some large hurdles to jump over (integrating the QR Code scanning, the camera and GPS) but I think as I get to these issues the path will be more clearly defined. <g> (hoping!)

--hm



I'm actually playing with moving to Node, Mongo, Express,Bootstrap, EJS/Jade - Not sure about Angular.

I'm exporting VFP tables into Mongo - Very interesting.

What the MEAN stack really needs is well documented, back to front demo like wcdemo!

Who knows? Maybe you'll wind a Google MVP one day!

If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---
















Rick Strahl
West Wind Technologies

Making waves on the Web
from Maui

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Steve
  Rick Strahl
  Sep 5, 2014 @ 04:56am
Hi Rick,
I would be interested in this. Honestly, my VFP Desktop App has gotten huge (from a functional and features perspective). I have never gotten past the Dev/Test Stages of developing a Web Version of the product. However, there are a few pieces that I would like to have accessible via a Web Interface, and also from a Mobile Device. I will probably need some help with getting this done.

HTH,
Steve


I just want to re-iterate here that the biggest potential reason NOT to do this is that changing everything over to Bootstrap is likely to break existing styling in existing applications.

To make BootStrap usable say inthe Web Control Framework or with things like default Response styles, ShowCursor, errors etc, I have to change the base styles that exist in Web Connection today to move to Bootstrap's styles. That's not a big deal from my end (although it's easy to miss stuff there). This means default styling will change to Bootstraps styling which is probably Ok. What's not though is that if you customized and overrode styling with Web Connection specific styles or custom styles those styles will not work or likely look very funky.

There are some ways around this - you can include both bootstrap and custom styling, but that on the other hand probably ends up looking a little odd, or will require a bit of tweaking.

Curious - how many of you are using completely custom CSS, and how many of you rely mainly on westwind.css?

The other alternative is to leave the default styling like it is, provide bootstrap and then explicitly provide overrides for bootstrap, but I think that would pretty much defeat the purpose as this will be a pain.

Thoughts?

+++ Rick ---


Me too - that make 4 cents.


My two cents worth...

Rick directed me to Bootstrap and then AngularJS. I see this as the future for the next round of development. It is awesome! The two-way data binding in Angular is so familiar to someone like myself that has been with dBase II and FoxBASE... from the start.

I'm finding WebConnect to still be a great server side framework. Although almost all of my work in the browser is makes callbacks to wwProcess for data and very little in the WC Page class, I also still find working with WC framework very easy and quick to build utility pages. I suspect this too will go away as I become more and more accustom to Angular.

Oh, all of my current work is building a cross platform web based application for the general public in a vertical market. This means I need to support smartphones, tablets and desktop machines. I know I still have some large hurdles to jump over (integrating the QR Code scanning, the camera and GPS) but I think as I get to these issues the path will be more clearly defined. <g> (hoping!)

--hm



I'm actually playing with moving to Node, Mongo, Express,Bootstrap, EJS/Jade - Not sure about Angular.

I'm exporting VFP tables into Mongo - Very interesting.

What the MEAN stack really needs is well documented, back to front demo like wcdemo!

Who knows? Maybe you'll wind a Google MVP one day!

If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---













Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  FoxInCloud Support - Thierry N.
  Steve
  Sep 6, 2014 @ 05:19am
Hi steve,

FoxinCloud may also help you
(WConnect based)


Hi Rick,
I would be interested in this. Honestly, my VFP Desktop App has gotten huge (from a functional and features perspective). I have never gotten past the Dev/Test Stages of developing a Web Version of the product. However, there are a few pieces that I would like to have accessible via a Web Interface, and also from a Mobile Device. I will probably need some help with getting this done.

HTH,
Steve


I just want to re-iterate here that the biggest potential reason NOT to do this is that changing everything over to Bootstrap is likely to break existing styling in existing applications.

To make BootStrap usable say inthe Web Control Framework or with things like default Response styles, ShowCursor, errors etc, I have to change the base styles that exist in Web Connection today to move to Bootstrap's styles. That's not a big deal from my end (although it's easy to miss stuff there). This means default styling will change to Bootstraps styling which is probably Ok. What's not though is that if you customized and overrode styling with Web Connection specific styles or custom styles those styles will not work or likely look very funky.

There are some ways around this - you can include both bootstrap and custom styling, but that on the other hand probably ends up looking a little odd, or will require a bit of tweaking.

Curious - how many of you are using completely custom CSS, and how many of you rely mainly on westwind.css?

The other alternative is to leave the default styling like it is, provide bootstrap and then explicitly provide overrides for bootstrap, but I think that would pretty much defeat the purpose as this will be a pain.

Thoughts?

+++ Rick ---


Me too - that make 4 cents.


My two cents worth...

Rick directed me to Bootstrap and then AngularJS. I see this as the future for the next round of development. It is awesome! The two-way data binding in Angular is so familiar to someone like myself that has been with dBase II and FoxBASE... from the start.

I'm finding WebConnect to still be a great server side framework. Although almost all of my work in the browser is makes callbacks to wwProcess for data and very little in the WC Page class, I also still find working with WC framework very easy and quick to build utility pages. I suspect this too will go away as I become more and more accustom to Angular.

Oh, all of my current work is building a cross platform web based application for the general public in a vertical market. This means I need to support smartphones, tablets and desktop machines. I know I still have some large hurdles to jump over (integrating the QR Code scanning, the camera and GPS) but I think as I get to these issues the path will be more clearly defined. <g> (hoping!)

--hm



I'm actually playing with moving to Node, Mongo, Express,Bootstrap, EJS/Jade - Not sure about Angular.

I'm exporting VFP tables into Mongo - Very interesting.

What the MEAN stack really needs is well documented, back to front demo like wcdemo!

Who knows? Maybe you'll wind a Google MVP one day!

If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---















-- thn (FoxInCloud)

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Rick Strahl
  Steve
  Sep 6, 2014 @ 10:33pm
Hi Steve,

You can certainly build Web capable UI for a Web browser. It's a matter of using a CSS framework that can responsively display content and that can make it easy. Bootstrap is a good way to do this - common ground for many styles that can be purchased for example so it's easy to expand on. Mobile app development can definitely be tedious though if you're looking to build a nice looking UI. Tryign to fit content onto a small device - phones especially - can be pretty challenging for more data intensive applications. Tablets and desktops are easier of course, but making it work on either can be challenging as well. It's doable just requires extra tweaking although all of this is not inherently Web Connection related, but rather related to HTML/CSS in general.

You can use this message board for questions or if you need more personalized support there's also paid support for consultation or mentoring...

Hope this helps,

+++ Rick ---


Hi Rick,
I would be interested in this. Honestly, my VFP Desktop App has gotten huge (from a functional and features perspective). I have never gotten past the Dev/Test Stages of developing a Web Version of the product. However, there are a few pieces that I would like to have accessible via a Web Interface, and also from a Mobile Device. I will probably need some help with getting this done.

HTH,
Steve


I just want to re-iterate here that the biggest potential reason NOT to do this is that changing everything over to Bootstrap is likely to break existing styling in existing applications.

To make BootStrap usable say inthe Web Control Framework or with things like default Response styles, ShowCursor, errors etc, I have to change the base styles that exist in Web Connection today to move to Bootstrap's styles. That's not a big deal from my end (although it's easy to miss stuff there). This means default styling will change to Bootstraps styling which is probably Ok. What's not though is that if you customized and overrode styling with Web Connection specific styles or custom styles those styles will not work or likely look very funky.

There are some ways around this - you can include both bootstrap and custom styling, but that on the other hand probably ends up looking a little odd, or will require a bit of tweaking.

Curious - how many of you are using completely custom CSS, and how many of you rely mainly on westwind.css?

The other alternative is to leave the default styling like it is, provide bootstrap and then explicitly provide overrides for bootstrap, but I think that would pretty much defeat the purpose as this will be a pain.

Thoughts?

+++ Rick ---


Me too - that make 4 cents.


My two cents worth...

Rick directed me to Bootstrap and then AngularJS. I see this as the future for the next round of development. It is awesome! The two-way data binding in Angular is so familiar to someone like myself that has been with dBase II and FoxBASE... from the start.

I'm finding WebConnect to still be a great server side framework. Although almost all of my work in the browser is makes callbacks to wwProcess for data and very little in the WC Page class, I also still find working with WC framework very easy and quick to build utility pages. I suspect this too will go away as I become more and more accustom to Angular.

Oh, all of my current work is building a cross platform web based application for the general public in a vertical market. This means I need to support smartphones, tablets and desktop machines. I know I still have some large hurdles to jump over (integrating the QR Code scanning, the camera and GPS) but I think as I get to these issues the path will be more clearly defined. <g> (hoping!)

--hm



I'm actually playing with moving to Node, Mongo, Express,Bootstrap, EJS/Jade - Not sure about Angular.

I'm exporting VFP tables into Mongo - Very interesting.

What the MEAN stack really needs is well documented, back to front demo like wcdemo!

Who knows? Maybe you'll wind a Google MVP one day!

If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---
















Rick Strahl
West Wind Technologies

Making waves on the Web
from Maui

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Marty Cantwell
  Rick Strahl
  Sep 8, 2014 @ 06:30am
Hey Rick,

I've just been relying on westwind.css for my WebConnection projects so far. So I don't see any major issues for what I have at this point. In fact, the public facing side of my work needs the most work!

It's funny how I look back at my growth as a programmer over the the last 15 years or so and realize how many of the meaningful changes in my thinking processes, techniques and tool usage have been a direct result of working with your products and tools. You have a balanced view toward getting work accomplished quickly and accurately and that translates into the evolution of your products. So I suppose that I've learned to trust your diligence of researching new and better tools and technologies along with your assessments of the positives and negatives of them as they apply to day to day productivity.

That said, I personally will take any changes you make to the WebConnection framework (or any of your products for that fact) as a nudge to move out of the "development ruts" that I usually find myself settling into. I suppose that a "deveolpment rut" is really just a comfort zone, but in an industry where sitting still is actually moving backward, it would probably be a good thing to be nudged from time to time, even if it requires a bit of rework!

Marty



I just want to re-iterate here that the biggest potential reason NOT to do this is that changing everything over to Bootstrap is likely to break existing styling in existing applications.

To make BootStrap usable say inthe Web Control Framework or with things like default Response styles, ShowCursor, errors etc, I have to change the base styles that exist in Web Connection today to move to Bootstrap's styles. That's not a big deal from my end (although it's easy to miss stuff there). This means default styling will change to Bootstraps styling which is probably Ok. What's not though is that if you customized and overrode styling with Web Connection specific styles or custom styles those styles will not work or likely look very funky.

There are some ways around this - you can include both bootstrap and custom styling, but that on the other hand probably ends up looking a little odd, or will require a bit of tweaking.

Curious - how many of you are using completely custom CSS, and how many of you rely mainly on westwind.css?

The other alternative is to leave the default styling like it is, provide bootstrap and then explicitly provide overrides for bootstrap, but I think that would pretty much defeat the purpose as this will be a pain.

Thoughts?

+++ Rick ---


Me too - that make 4 cents.


My two cents worth...

Rick directed me to Bootstrap and then AngularJS. I see this as the future for the next round of development. It is awesome! The two-way data binding in Angular is so familiar to someone like myself that has been with dBase II and FoxBASE... from the start.

I'm finding WebConnect to still be a great server side framework. Although almost all of my work in the browser is makes callbacks to wwProcess for data and very little in the WC Page class, I also still find working with WC framework very easy and quick to build utility pages. I suspect this too will go away as I become more and more accustom to Angular.

Oh, all of my current work is building a cross platform web based application for the general public in a vertical market. This means I need to support smartphones, tablets and desktop machines. I know I still have some large hurdles to jump over (integrating the QR Code scanning, the camera and GPS) but I think as I get to these issues the path will be more clearly defined. <g> (hoping!)

--hm



I'm actually playing with moving to Node, Mongo, Express,Bootstrap, EJS/Jade - Not sure about Angular.

I'm exporting VFP tables into Mongo - Very interesting.

What the MEAN stack really needs is well documented, back to front demo like wcdemo!

Who knows? Maybe you'll wind a Google MVP one day!

If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---
















Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Rick Strahl
  Marty Cantwell
  Sep 8, 2014 @ 10:41am
Thanks Marty for the vote of confidence.

But FWIW, stuff that eventually makes it into Web Connection is usually a few years behind the bleeding edge - which is sort of on purpose I suppose. Allows the tech to gel and see if it's really a good fit or not in the first place.

I wish we weren't at the end of the VFP life-cycle - there are so many things that could be done, that would be highly useful as well as fun to build and use. But given where we are at with VFP's dev numbers plunging to oblivion, I just can't justify extensive new development.

What I plan on doing is this:

Release a small point version in the next week or so that will feature some maintenance fixes and a new more power full wwRestProcess class that will greatly facilitate building REST backends and make it as easy as other Web Connection end points.

Then in the next weeks I'll start looking at a Web Connection 6 build with the primary focus of re-doing the interface redesign using Bootstrap. If there's one relatively easy thing that can spruce things up it's a more flexible UI framework to facilitate building HTML interfaces in a standard and more extensible way, that will be an easy win for anybody who is still here :-)

+++ Rick ---


Hey Rick,

I've just been relying on westwind.css for my WebConnection projects so far. So I don't see any major issues for what I have at this point. In fact, the public facing side of my work needs the most work!

It's funny how I look back at my growth as a programmer over the the last 15 years or so and realize how many of the meaningful changes in my thinking processes, techniques and tool usage have been a direct result of working with your products and tools. You have a balanced view toward getting work accomplished quickly and accurately and that translates into the evolution of your products. So I suppose that I've learned to trust your diligence of researching new and better tools and technologies along with your assessments of the positives and negatives of them as they apply to day to day productivity.

That said, I personally will take any changes you make to the WebConnection framework (or any of your products for that fact) as a nudge to move out of the "development ruts" that I usually find myself settling into. I suppose that a "deveolpment rut" is really just a comfort zone, but in an industry where sitting still is actually moving backward, it would probably be a good thing to be nudged from time to time, even if it requires a bit of rework!

Marty



I just want to re-iterate here that the biggest potential reason NOT to do this is that changing everything over to Bootstrap is likely to break existing styling in existing applications.

To make BootStrap usable say inthe Web Control Framework or with things like default Response styles, ShowCursor, errors etc, I have to change the base styles that exist in Web Connection today to move to Bootstrap's styles. That's not a big deal from my end (although it's easy to miss stuff there). This means default styling will change to Bootstraps styling which is probably Ok. What's not though is that if you customized and overrode styling with Web Connection specific styles or custom styles those styles will not work or likely look very funky.

There are some ways around this - you can include both bootstrap and custom styling, but that on the other hand probably ends up looking a little odd, or will require a bit of tweaking.

Curious - how many of you are using completely custom CSS, and how many of you rely mainly on westwind.css?

The other alternative is to leave the default styling like it is, provide bootstrap and then explicitly provide overrides for bootstrap, but I think that would pretty much defeat the purpose as this will be a pain.

Thoughts?

+++ Rick ---


Me too - that make 4 cents.


My two cents worth...

Rick directed me to Bootstrap and then AngularJS. I see this as the future for the next round of development. It is awesome! The two-way data binding in Angular is so familiar to someone like myself that has been with dBase II and FoxBASE... from the start.

I'm finding WebConnect to still be a great server side framework. Although almost all of my work in the browser is makes callbacks to wwProcess for data and very little in the WC Page class, I also still find working with WC framework very easy and quick to build utility pages. I suspect this too will go away as I become more and more accustom to Angular.

Oh, all of my current work is building a cross platform web based application for the general public in a vertical market. This means I need to support smartphones, tablets and desktop machines. I know I still have some large hurdles to jump over (integrating the QR Code scanning, the camera and GPS) but I think as I get to these issues the path will be more clearly defined. <g> (hoping!)

--hm



I'm actually playing with moving to Node, Mongo, Express,Bootstrap, EJS/Jade - Not sure about Angular.

I'm exporting VFP tables into Mongo - Very interesting.

What the MEAN stack really needs is well documented, back to front demo like wcdemo!

Who knows? Maybe you'll wind a Google MVP one day!

If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---

















Rick Strahl
West Wind Technologies

Making waves on the Web
from Maui

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Stein Goering
  Marty Cantwell
  Sep 8, 2014 @ 01:20pm


It's funny how I look back at my growth as a programmer over the the last 15 years or so and realize how many of the meaningful changes in my thinking processes, techniques and tool usage have been a direct result of working with your products and tools. You have a balanced view toward getting work accomplished quickly and accurately and that translates into the evolution of your products. So I suppose that I've learned to trust your diligence of researching new and better tools and technologies along with your assessments of the positives and negatives of them as they apply to day to day productivity.

That very much describes my own experience working with West-Wind...

--stein

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Bob Roenigk
  Rick Strahl
  Sep 16, 2014 @ 05:44pm
Very much looking forward to both updates, Rick.

Based on the positive talk about Bootstrap here, I have started using it. Here is a rather interesting and helpful online front-end for it.

http://www.layoutit.com/

~bob



Thanks Marty for the vote of confidence.

But FWIW, stuff that eventually makes it into Web Connection is usually a few years behind the bleeding edge - which is sort of on purpose I suppose. Allows the tech to gel and see if it's really a good fit or not in the first place.

I wish we weren't at the end of the VFP life-cycle - there are so many things that could be done, that would be highly useful as well as fun to build and use. But given where we are at with VFP's dev numbers plunging to oblivion, I just can't justify extensive new development.

What I plan on doing is this:

Release a small point version in the next week or so that will feature some maintenance fixes and a new more power full wwRestProcess class that will greatly facilitate building REST backends and make it as easy as other Web Connection end points.

Then in the next weeks I'll start looking at a Web Connection 6 build with the primary focus of re-doing the interface redesign using Bootstrap. If there's one relatively easy thing that can spruce things up it's a more flexible UI framework to facilitate building HTML interfaces in a standard and more extensible way, that will be an easy win for anybody who is still here :-)

+++ Rick ---


Hey Rick,

I've just been relying on westwind.css for my WebConnection projects so far. So I don't see any major issues for what I have at this point. In fact, the public facing side of my work needs the most work!

It's funny how I look back at my growth as a programmer over the the last 15 years or so and realize how many of the meaningful changes in my thinking processes, techniques and tool usage have been a direct result of working with your products and tools. You have a balanced view toward getting work accomplished quickly and accurately and that translates into the evolution of your products. So I suppose that I've learned to trust your diligence of researching new and better tools and technologies along with your assessments of the positives and negatives of them as they apply to day to day productivity.

That said, I personally will take any changes you make to the WebConnection framework (or any of your products for that fact) as a nudge to move out of the "development ruts" that I usually find myself settling into. I suppose that a "deveolpment rut" is really just a comfort zone, but in an industry where sitting still is actually moving backward, it would probably be a good thing to be nudged from time to time, even if it requires a bit of rework!

Marty



I just want to re-iterate here that the biggest potential reason NOT to do this is that changing everything over to Bootstrap is likely to break existing styling in existing applications.

To make BootStrap usable say inthe Web Control Framework or with things like default Response styles, ShowCursor, errors etc, I have to change the base styles that exist in Web Connection today to move to Bootstrap's styles. That's not a big deal from my end (although it's easy to miss stuff there). This means default styling will change to Bootstraps styling which is probably Ok. What's not though is that if you customized and overrode styling with Web Connection specific styles or custom styles those styles will not work or likely look very funky.

There are some ways around this - you can include both bootstrap and custom styling, but that on the other hand probably ends up looking a little odd, or will require a bit of tweaking.

Curious - how many of you are using completely custom CSS, and how many of you rely mainly on westwind.css?

The other alternative is to leave the default styling like it is, provide bootstrap and then explicitly provide overrides for bootstrap, but I think that would pretty much defeat the purpose as this will be a pain.

Thoughts?

+++ Rick ---


Me too - that make 4 cents.


My two cents worth...

Rick directed me to Bootstrap and then AngularJS. I see this as the future for the next round of development. It is awesome! The two-way data binding in Angular is so familiar to someone like myself that has been with dBase II and FoxBASE... from the start.

I'm finding WebConnect to still be a great server side framework. Although almost all of my work in the browser is makes callbacks to wwProcess for data and very little in the WC Page class, I also still find working with WC framework very easy and quick to build utility pages. I suspect this too will go away as I become more and more accustom to Angular.

Oh, all of my current work is building a cross platform web based application for the general public in a vertical market. This means I need to support smartphones, tablets and desktop machines. I know I still have some large hurdles to jump over (integrating the QR Code scanning, the camera and GPS) but I think as I get to these issues the path will be more clearly defined. <g> (hoping!)

--hm



I'm actually playing with moving to Node, Mongo, Express,Bootstrap, EJS/Jade - Not sure about Angular.

I'm exporting VFP tables into Mongo - Very interesting.

What the MEAN stack really needs is well documented, back to front demo like wcdemo!

Who knows? Maybe you'll wind a Google MVP one day!

If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---

















Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Rick Strahl
  Bob Roenigk
  Sep 18, 2014 @ 12:47pm

As has been discussed here earlier, I'm in the process of pushing out a new release of Web Connection, which will be version 5.70. It's minor and will have a number of bug fixes and a few enhancements related to creating more efficient REST services.

You can see the summary of all that's coming:
wcdocs:_s8104dggl.htm

The main improvement will be a much improved wwRESTProcess class which provides a very easy way to create JSON or XML results. Basically it provides a simple method based interface that accepts a simple input parameter for input data (ie. a JSON object - or using regular Form vars) and result values/objects/data that automatically transform into JSON or XML based on the HTTP Accept header. This makes it very easy to create JSON endpoints for AJAX applications, or full RESTful APIs.

Additionally there have been major improvements in the wwJsonSerializer serialization performance for large object graphs. Performance will be up to 4+ times faster for large object hierarchies as the output generation has been optimized. There have also been a number of important tweaks for the wwJsonService class which is the backbone for the REST process class processing.

Finally there are a number of enhancements that deal with object copying/updating which again is very useful in these REST scenarios - as data is received as inputs this data can be copied to business objects and cursors more easily using some of these enhancements.

This will all end up in Web Connection 5.70...

+++ Rick ---


+++ Rick ---


Very much looking forward to both updates, Rick.

Based on the positive talk about Bootstrap here, I have started using it. Here is a rather interesting and helpful online front-end for it.

http://www.layoutit.com/

~bob



Thanks Marty for the vote of confidence.

But FWIW, stuff that eventually makes it into Web Connection is usually a few years behind the bleeding edge - which is sort of on purpose I suppose. Allows the tech to gel and see if it's really a good fit or not in the first place.

I wish we weren't at the end of the VFP life-cycle - there are so many things that could be done, that would be highly useful as well as fun to build and use. But given where we are at with VFP's dev numbers plunging to oblivion, I just can't justify extensive new development.

What I plan on doing is this:

Release a small point version in the next week or so that will feature some maintenance fixes and a new more power full wwRestProcess class that will greatly facilitate building REST backends and make it as easy as other Web Connection end points.

Then in the next weeks I'll start looking at a Web Connection 6 build with the primary focus of re-doing the interface redesign using Bootstrap. If there's one relatively easy thing that can spruce things up it's a more flexible UI framework to facilitate building HTML interfaces in a standard and more extensible way, that will be an easy win for anybody who is still here :-)

+++ Rick ---


Hey Rick,

I've just been relying on westwind.css for my WebConnection projects so far. So I don't see any major issues for what I have at this point. In fact, the public facing side of my work needs the most work!

It's funny how I look back at my growth as a programmer over the the last 15 years or so and realize how many of the meaningful changes in my thinking processes, techniques and tool usage have been a direct result of working with your products and tools. You have a balanced view toward getting work accomplished quickly and accurately and that translates into the evolution of your products. So I suppose that I've learned to trust your diligence of researching new and better tools and technologies along with your assessments of the positives and negatives of them as they apply to day to day productivity.

That said, I personally will take any changes you make to the WebConnection framework (or any of your products for that fact) as a nudge to move out of the "development ruts" that I usually find myself settling into. I suppose that a "deveolpment rut" is really just a comfort zone, but in an industry where sitting still is actually moving backward, it would probably be a good thing to be nudged from time to time, even if it requires a bit of rework!

Marty



I just want to re-iterate here that the biggest potential reason NOT to do this is that changing everything over to Bootstrap is likely to break existing styling in existing applications.

To make BootStrap usable say inthe Web Control Framework or with things like default Response styles, ShowCursor, errors etc, I have to change the base styles that exist in Web Connection today to move to Bootstrap's styles. That's not a big deal from my end (although it's easy to miss stuff there). This means default styling will change to Bootstraps styling which is probably Ok. What's not though is that if you customized and overrode styling with Web Connection specific styles or custom styles those styles will not work or likely look very funky.

There are some ways around this - you can include both bootstrap and custom styling, but that on the other hand probably ends up looking a little odd, or will require a bit of tweaking.

Curious - how many of you are using completely custom CSS, and how many of you rely mainly on westwind.css?

The other alternative is to leave the default styling like it is, provide bootstrap and then explicitly provide overrides for bootstrap, but I think that would pretty much defeat the purpose as this will be a pain.

Thoughts?

+++ Rick ---


Me too - that make 4 cents.


My two cents worth...

Rick directed me to Bootstrap and then AngularJS. I see this as the future for the next round of development. It is awesome! The two-way data binding in Angular is so familiar to someone like myself that has been with dBase II and FoxBASE... from the start.

I'm finding WebConnect to still be a great server side framework. Although almost all of my work in the browser is makes callbacks to wwProcess for data and very little in the WC Page class, I also still find working with WC framework very easy and quick to build utility pages. I suspect this too will go away as I become more and more accustom to Angular.

Oh, all of my current work is building a cross platform web based application for the general public in a vertical market. This means I need to support smartphones, tablets and desktop machines. I know I still have some large hurdles to jump over (integrating the QR Code scanning, the camera and GPS) but I think as I get to these issues the path will be more clearly defined. <g> (hoping!)

--hm



I'm actually playing with moving to Node, Mongo, Express,Bootstrap, EJS/Jade - Not sure about Angular.

I'm exporting VFP tables into Mongo - Very interesting.

What the MEAN stack really needs is well documented, back to front demo like wcdemo!

Who knows? Maybe you'll wind a Google MVP one day!

If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---




















Rick Strahl
West Wind Technologies

Making waves on the Web
from Maui

Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Marty
  Rick Strahl
  Sep 20, 2014 @ 07:00am
Seems like all the Martys are sticking with West-Wind!

Any chance you can include a view-engine? - I've looked at Handlebars, EJS, etc. I'm leaning toward DUSTJS. It's supported by Linkedin. It's complied and claims to be the fastest engine (leaves all other in the DUST) and runs both client side and server side.

As has been discussed here earlier, I'm in the process of pushing out a new release of Web Connection, which will be version 5.70. It's minor and will have a number of bug fixes and a few enhancements related to creating more efficient REST services.

You can see the summary of all that's coming:
wcdocs:_s8104dggl.htm

The main improvement will be a much improved wwRESTProcess class which provides a very easy way to create JSON or XML results. Basically it provides a simple method based interface that accepts a simple input parameter for input data (ie. a JSON object - or using regular Form vars) and result values/objects/data that automatically transform into JSON or XML based on the HTTP Accept header. This makes it very easy to create JSON endpoints for AJAX applications, or full RESTful APIs.

Additionally there have been major improvements in the wwJsonSerializer serialization performance for large object graphs. Performance will be up to 4+ times faster for large object hierarchies as the output generation has been optimized. There have also been a number of important tweaks for the wwJsonService class which is the backbone for the REST process class processing.

Finally there are a number of enhancements that deal with object copying/updating which again is very useful in these REST scenarios - as data is received as inputs this data can be copied to business objects and cursors more easily using some of these enhancements.

This will all end up in Web Connection 5.70...

+++ Rick ---


+++ Rick ---


Very much looking forward to both updates, Rick.

Based on the positive talk about Bootstrap here, I have started using it. Here is a rather interesting and helpful online front-end for it.

http://www.layoutit.com/

~bob



Thanks Marty for the vote of confidence.

But FWIW, stuff that eventually makes it into Web Connection is usually a few years behind the bleeding edge - which is sort of on purpose I suppose. Allows the tech to gel and see if it's really a good fit or not in the first place.

I wish we weren't at the end of the VFP life-cycle - there are so many things that could be done, that would be highly useful as well as fun to build and use. But given where we are at with VFP's dev numbers plunging to oblivion, I just can't justify extensive new development.

What I plan on doing is this:

Release a small point version in the next week or so that will feature some maintenance fixes and a new more power full wwRestProcess class that will greatly facilitate building REST backends and make it as easy as other Web Connection end points.

Then in the next weeks I'll start looking at a Web Connection 6 build with the primary focus of re-doing the interface redesign using Bootstrap. If there's one relatively easy thing that can spruce things up it's a more flexible UI framework to facilitate building HTML interfaces in a standard and more extensible way, that will be an easy win for anybody who is still here :-)

+++ Rick ---


Hey Rick,

I've just been relying on westwind.css for my WebConnection projects so far. So I don't see any major issues for what I have at this point. In fact, the public facing side of my work needs the most work!

It's funny how I look back at my growth as a programmer over the the last 15 years or so and realize how many of the meaningful changes in my thinking processes, techniques and tool usage have been a direct result of working with your products and tools. You have a balanced view toward getting work accomplished quickly and accurately and that translates into the evolution of your products. So I suppose that I've learned to trust your diligence of researching new and better tools and technologies along with your assessments of the positives and negatives of them as they apply to day to day productivity.

That said, I personally will take any changes you make to the WebConnection framework (or any of your products for that fact) as a nudge to move out of the "development ruts" that I usually find myself settling into. I suppose that a "deveolpment rut" is really just a comfort zone, but in an industry where sitting still is actually moving backward, it would probably be a good thing to be nudged from time to time, even if it requires a bit of rework!

Marty



I just want to re-iterate here that the biggest potential reason NOT to do this is that changing everything over to Bootstrap is likely to break existing styling in existing applications.

To make BootStrap usable say inthe Web Control Framework or with things like default Response styles, ShowCursor, errors etc, I have to change the base styles that exist in Web Connection today to move to Bootstrap's styles. That's not a big deal from my end (although it's easy to miss stuff there). This means default styling will change to Bootstraps styling which is probably Ok. What's not though is that if you customized and overrode styling with Web Connection specific styles or custom styles those styles will not work or likely look very funky.

There are some ways around this - you can include both bootstrap and custom styling, but that on the other hand probably ends up looking a little odd, or will require a bit of tweaking.

Curious - how many of you are using completely custom CSS, and how many of you rely mainly on westwind.css?

The other alternative is to leave the default styling like it is, provide bootstrap and then explicitly provide overrides for bootstrap, but I think that would pretty much defeat the purpose as this will be a pain.

Thoughts?

+++ Rick ---


Me too - that make 4 cents.


My two cents worth...

Rick directed me to Bootstrap and then AngularJS. I see this as the future for the next round of development. It is awesome! The two-way data binding in Angular is so familiar to someone like myself that has been with dBase II and FoxBASE... from the start.

I'm finding WebConnect to still be a great server side framework. Although almost all of my work in the browser is makes callbacks to wwProcess for data and very little in the WC Page class, I also still find working with WC framework very easy and quick to build utility pages. I suspect this too will go away as I become more and more accustom to Angular.

Oh, all of my current work is building a cross platform web based application for the general public in a vertical market. This means I need to support smartphones, tablets and desktop machines. I know I still have some large hurdles to jump over (integrating the QR Code scanning, the camera and GPS) but I think as I get to these issues the path will be more clearly defined. <g> (hoping!)

--hm



I'm actually playing with moving to Node, Mongo, Express,Bootstrap, EJS/Jade - Not sure about Angular.

I'm exporting VFP tables into Mongo - Very interesting.

What the MEAN stack really needs is well documented, back to front demo like wcdemo!

Who knows? Maybe you'll wind a Google MVP one day!

If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---




















Gravatar is a globally recognized avatar based on your email address. Re: Bootstrap Features
  Rick Strahl
  Marty
  Sep 22, 2014 @ 07:25pm
Marty,

A client side view engine you mean?

No - I don't think I'm going to dictate a client side framework of any kind although I'm planning on shipping AngularJs examples. If anything I think Angular will be the tool of choice for client data binding and view rendering.

+++ Rick ---


Seems like all the Martys are sticking with West-Wind!

Any chance you can include a view-engine? - I've looked at Handlebars, EJS, etc. I'm leaning toward DUSTJS. It's supported by Linkedin. It's complied and claims to be the fastest engine (leaves all other in the DUST) and runs both client side and server side.

As has been discussed here earlier, I'm in the process of pushing out a new release of Web Connection, which will be version 5.70. It's minor and will have a number of bug fixes and a few enhancements related to creating more efficient REST services.

You can see the summary of all that's coming:
wcdocs:_s8104dggl.htm

The main improvement will be a much improved wwRESTProcess class which provides a very easy way to create JSON or XML results. Basically it provides a simple method based interface that accepts a simple input parameter for input data (ie. a JSON object - or using regular Form vars) and result values/objects/data that automatically transform into JSON or XML based on the HTTP Accept header. This makes it very easy to create JSON endpoints for AJAX applications, or full RESTful APIs.

Additionally there have been major improvements in the wwJsonSerializer serialization performance for large object graphs. Performance will be up to 4+ times faster for large object hierarchies as the output generation has been optimized. There have also been a number of important tweaks for the wwJsonService class which is the backbone for the REST process class processing.

Finally there are a number of enhancements that deal with object copying/updating which again is very useful in these REST scenarios - as data is received as inputs this data can be copied to business objects and cursors more easily using some of these enhancements.

This will all end up in Web Connection 5.70...

+++ Rick ---


+++ Rick ---


Very much looking forward to both updates, Rick.

Based on the positive talk about Bootstrap here, I have started using it. Here is a rather interesting and helpful online front-end for it.

http://www.layoutit.com/

~bob



Thanks Marty for the vote of confidence.

But FWIW, stuff that eventually makes it into Web Connection is usually a few years behind the bleeding edge - which is sort of on purpose I suppose. Allows the tech to gel and see if it's really a good fit or not in the first place.

I wish we weren't at the end of the VFP life-cycle - there are so many things that could be done, that would be highly useful as well as fun to build and use. But given where we are at with VFP's dev numbers plunging to oblivion, I just can't justify extensive new development.

What I plan on doing is this:

Release a small point version in the next week or so that will feature some maintenance fixes and a new more power full wwRestProcess class that will greatly facilitate building REST backends and make it as easy as other Web Connection end points.

Then in the next weeks I'll start looking at a Web Connection 6 build with the primary focus of re-doing the interface redesign using Bootstrap. If there's one relatively easy thing that can spruce things up it's a more flexible UI framework to facilitate building HTML interfaces in a standard and more extensible way, that will be an easy win for anybody who is still here :-)

+++ Rick ---


Hey Rick,

I've just been relying on westwind.css for my WebConnection projects so far. So I don't see any major issues for what I have at this point. In fact, the public facing side of my work needs the most work!

It's funny how I look back at my growth as a programmer over the the last 15 years or so and realize how many of the meaningful changes in my thinking processes, techniques and tool usage have been a direct result of working with your products and tools. You have a balanced view toward getting work accomplished quickly and accurately and that translates into the evolution of your products. So I suppose that I've learned to trust your diligence of researching new and better tools and technologies along with your assessments of the positives and negatives of them as they apply to day to day productivity.

That said, I personally will take any changes you make to the WebConnection framework (or any of your products for that fact) as a nudge to move out of the "development ruts" that I usually find myself settling into. I suppose that a "deveolpment rut" is really just a comfort zone, but in an industry where sitting still is actually moving backward, it would probably be a good thing to be nudged from time to time, even if it requires a bit of rework!

Marty



I just want to re-iterate here that the biggest potential reason NOT to do this is that changing everything over to Bootstrap is likely to break existing styling in existing applications.

To make BootStrap usable say inthe Web Control Framework or with things like default Response styles, ShowCursor, errors etc, I have to change the base styles that exist in Web Connection today to move to Bootstrap's styles. That's not a big deal from my end (although it's easy to miss stuff there). This means default styling will change to Bootstraps styling which is probably Ok. What's not though is that if you customized and overrode styling with Web Connection specific styles or custom styles those styles will not work or likely look very funky.

There are some ways around this - you can include both bootstrap and custom styling, but that on the other hand probably ends up looking a little odd, or will require a bit of tweaking.

Curious - how many of you are using completely custom CSS, and how many of you rely mainly on westwind.css?

The other alternative is to leave the default styling like it is, provide bootstrap and then explicitly provide overrides for bootstrap, but I think that would pretty much defeat the purpose as this will be a pain.

Thoughts?

+++ Rick ---


Me too - that make 4 cents.


My two cents worth...

Rick directed me to Bootstrap and then AngularJS. I see this as the future for the next round of development. It is awesome! The two-way data binding in Angular is so familiar to someone like myself that has been with dBase II and FoxBASE... from the start.

I'm finding WebConnect to still be a great server side framework. Although almost all of my work in the browser is makes callbacks to wwProcess for data and very little in the WC Page class, I also still find working with WC framework very easy and quick to build utility pages. I suspect this too will go away as I become more and more accustom to Angular.

Oh, all of my current work is building a cross platform web based application for the general public in a vertical market. This means I need to support smartphones, tablets and desktop machines. I know I still have some large hurdles to jump over (integrating the QR Code scanning, the camera and GPS) but I think as I get to these issues the path will be more clearly defined. <g> (hoping!)

--hm



I'm actually playing with moving to Node, Mongo, Express,Bootstrap, EJS/Jade - Not sure about Angular.

I'm exporting VFP tables into Mongo - Very interesting.

What the MEAN stack really needs is well documented, back to front demo like wcdemo!

Who knows? Maybe you'll wind a Google MVP one day!

If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

Well, it's hard to say who's left :-)

By participation rates here, and other Fox forums I would say that FoxPro is starting to drop towards the zero point, but it's hard to be sure.

+++ Rick ---


ShowCursor() has been deprecated a long while ago... :-) You should look at HtmlHelpers HtmlDataGrid.

wcdocs:_37w14ngiz.htm

Michael, if you're serious, you should call me or send an email to discuss further - I would be up for doing this to push another major release of Web Connection. I've been thinking about this myself, but kind of gave up on the idea as not worth it because I think there's just not enough market left to bring back even a minor payback for the time that goes into it. If you are considering sponsoring some of this time with paid work I could definitely be persuaded to put that effort in.

However, keep in mind completely redoing the default styling is likely going to break layout for a number of old sites that just choose to do a straight update with many controls and components requiring styling updates.

However, I think if Web Connection is to have any viability going forward at all, going this route providing support for a fairly standard CSS framework and the ability to create responsive designs from it more easily would be a big bonus...

Anyway - let me know what you have in mind...

+++ Rick ---


Rick I would pay for anything having to do with bootstrap being built into the core product. You can start with showcursor() - probably the most widely used method in the WWWC arsenal.

WWWC with jquery and or jqueryui and or bootstrap 2.3 and or 3.x

Rick I think you could update the core classes in a few days time. Send me the bill.


The company I have worked for wants to convert a WWC site to .NET MVC. They won't be able to begin the conversion for another year. I'm trying to convince them to allow me to upgrade the existing product using REST, jQuery, etc because it will facilitate the conversion. If you sell the upgrade as a means of protecting an existing investment by allowing future diversity, I think you get a substantial following.

In my case, the .NET MVC team knows your work very well, so your opinion will carry a lot of weight.


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that the focus is more and more shifting to the client side and that's why I mentioned that if I was to go forward with Web Connection where the next focus would go. I'm just not sure that there's enough interest to warrant the effort that goes into that.

Additionally Web Connection is currently capable of doing all this - REST services are super easy to set up with Web Connection and the wwJsonService class although the setup is more manual than it could be. And client side development is pretty much a preference thing - some people like to use just plain JS code, others like to use a framework like Angular or Ember and others yet build their own.
I'm in for $500.

I think it *would* be very nice to clean up styling with BootStrap and maybe introduce a simple set of examples using Angular and better mobile enabled templates and samples, but it really depends on interest.


+++ Rick ---























Rick Strahl
West Wind Technologies

Making waves on the Web
from Maui

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